Well there is talk that chivalry is dead but does it have to go so far the other way?
I was appalled, no stunned, by what happened to me on the boardwalk the other day. I was chatting with two female friends at the very edge of where the boardwalk meets the sand. From behind I was literally body-checked! I was body-checked with enough force that it caused me to stumble. At first I thought it was one of my bratty male friends. It took several minutes for it to register that it was a man and his wife who had apparently taken offence that I was “in their way” on the boardwalk. Now, that is ludicrous since I was on the very edge of the boardwalk, the smallest of the 3 women standing there and with my back to him. A very cowardly move I would say. What is almost more shocking is that this behaviour was condoned by his wife.
Our friend decided to confront him as she came upon him sitting on a bench with his wife further down the boardwalk. She asked“Why did you push my friend? Did you see the size of her” His response was “Well, she was in my way!” What would cause a man to behave this way? Are social graces so lax these days because the lines are so blurred? Chivarly, which was such a noble trait, has now been misconstrued as chauvinism. A man must be so confused as to how to act. Does he open the door for a woman? Does he offer her a seat on the bus? Is he to pay the cheque on a dinner date?
I know women are now much more empowered both in the workforce and at home but does that mean a man can’t show any sense of chivalry? With the feminist movement is the act of a man opening the door chauvinistic or is it just plain chivalrous? Where do we draw the line? How is a man supposed to know how to act and what women want?
As always weigh in on our poll below and leave us a comment with your thoughts.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/valentines-day/dont-sweat-it-guys-chivalry-aint-chauvinism/article1456865/
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16 comments:
I think it must be hard for men in these times to know what the right thing to do is. But good manners and courtesy never go out of style. More consideration and attention should be paid on both parties. I think women still want to be treated like ladies while at the same time appreciated for our individual accomplishments. The balance is difficult but can work if respect is maintained.
Body checking anyone - male or female - because you feel they are in your way is just rude. Nothing to do with chivalry there. I spend my days teaching my two small chidren to use please and thank you, to say excuse me when interrupting a conversation or trying to get by, to put their hands over their mouths when they cough and say pardon me when they burp, and that sharing is far more rewarding that recieving all in the hopes that they don't grow up to be like that guy.
It’s all about respect for people, as human beings. I will hold a door open for anyone following me, male or female. And as far is walking into someone simply because they are in your way (which is really just saying the path you have chosen to follow is more important than theirs) is really just rudeness combined with self centeredness. Many people today seem to think their own agenda is the most important, forgetting that we all have our own agendas and courtesy means having respect for another’s.
As far as more traditional acts of chivalry, it is a confusing world. On the one hand it is condescending to believe a woman warrants special treatment simply because of her gender. On the other hand I know some women who expect it and who think it rude if you do not let them pass first, or offer them a seat. At the end of the day I think it goes to my earlier point. Treat every person, male and female, young and old with respect and courtesy and you cannot go wrong. If someone is old or infirm or carrying a child, offer them your seat, open the door, let them go first and help them if you can. If they are young and healthy, well, we are all equal so maybe not.
I think we all agree that this guy is rude beyond belief. I think the point being made here is that 20 years ago even the rudest of people would not take the liberty of "body checking" a woman. It is all fair game these days.
I disagree. Twenty years ago ass holes were still ass holes and some men abused those who are weaker to empower themselves. I don't see this as being a sign that things increasing equality means increasing rudeness.
I get what you are saying. Point is, rude or not, 20 years ago he might have thought twice about behaving that way to a woman. He wouldn't get away with it. Present day women are ruling the board room and men are stay at home dads. It is fair game.
If you are correct than violence against women generally should be on the rise. I wonder if this is the case. And if it is, whether its a reflection of more incidents - men behaving badly, or more reporting - women standing up for themselves.
Harold says....
One attracts more bees with honey than vinegar. He should have excused himself.... Been kind. And perhaps may have even made a good friend from a person being in his way. This guy on the boardwalk has issues and probably didn't care if it were a woman or man. As long as he felt the person was weaker than he. I'm sure if it were a male line-backer or a female wrestler, he would of perhaps walked around them. I'm a male who two weeks ago encountered a similar situation; some much larger man than I walked by me, extended his flexed shoulder to give me a whack! The boardwalk guy has issues one way or another.....I love to open doors for women and men alike, if it's my car. Or if I'm closer to a car/house/office door. I also wait in my car when dropping off a person at their home at night, until they go through their door safely (did so just last night, to both car and home door), I wait before leaving. I just love putting someone before me (except for a bullet of course). Once again male or female doesn't matter. It selfish of me when I allow someone to sit in my seat on the street car. Or allow someone to go in front of me in line, at the bank or check-out counter. Selfish, because I love to see the smile on the face you've allowed in front of you. Letting someone in front of you in a car lane takes nothing from the destiny time. It just adds to the pleasure of the drive. I wonder the people who speed like crazy and cut you off (male or female) just to rush home to watch Oprah. And I offer always to pay for dinners/lunches to both males and females and love it when others offer to pay for my meals.
From a man's perspective, I agree with the general direction of this thread, that we should each be polite and courteous to men and women both. But the topic is about chivalry and chauvinism, which is different. When do we treat women equally, and when do we put them first?
The confusion comes because holding a door for a woman - for the fact alone that she is a woman - is technically sexist, even if it is something nice to do. I think if you ask not about what is being done, but WHY, the answer to whether or not this is okay becomes clearer. Men used to do things for women in part because they were perceived as the weaker sex, they were dainty and didn't like to get dirty (ha!). And that is why some women today are offended by the idea. ("You really think I can't open my own door?") But these are modern times and men and women are considered much more equal in every way. So why give women special treatment now? The real reason, if you think about it, is to be romantic, to acknowledge an attraction, to show a small (or grand) gesture of intimacy, from friendship to love. It says something about how you feel. Remember this is about chivalry here, not simply being polite or courteous. And is that okay? Hell yes. Women who like it do so because they feel flattered. It's a compliment. It's done not because simply because the woman is a woman, but because of who they are.
Bravo!!!!
Are you single?
On Chivalry - Manners and common courtesy are all that matter. Being abusive or rude is never an option. No matter what!
On Chauvinism - I had to laugh the other day - I entered an elevator in which 4 women were having a rather loud discussion on how hot muscular men are and if their private parts are just as muscular? When I entered I was scanned over by the women - there was one other man in the elevator at the time. He looked very relieved when I entered. They continued like we weren't even there. You could say it is similar to construction workers cat calling women - never-the-less I found the situation amusing and I felt the need to get my sorry ass to the gym.
I don't know about this reasoning "the real reason, if you think about it, is to be romantic, to acknowledge an attraction, to show a small (or grand) gesture of intimacy, from friendship to love."
As you point out chivalry was extended to all women because of their frailties, because men were seen as superior and also because of the humility demonstrated when a superior person defers to the weaker person. While we want to move away from the sexism, is there not something meritorious in the humility aspect?
It sounds to me like you are saying the new motivation is sexual attraction, which is fine, but which is also very different than chivalry. If the standard for chivalrous behavior is now attraction and love, than you have perhaps removed it from its sexist roots but also replaced the value of humility with one of lust. I love sexual games and flirting as much as the next person, does this not somehow debase the whole thing?
Ok what am i missing - chivalry vs. being polite.
If I open a door for someone I'm doing so because its a polite thing to do - not because I want to flirt with them. If a women/man is offended by the fact that I opened a door for her/him - that's her/his problem and I sorry if I offended her/him.
But I'm not going to change being a good person. This world needs more people who are willing to do good deeds and not expect anything in return.
Chivalry maybe a dated word which is associated with knighthood and honor but at its core it's about being civil.
I think we could all afford to be a little more civil and a little less judgmental to one another.
I agree whole heartedly, and this is the point I have been trying to make. Its about treating all people equally and with respect. Chivalry is outdated and should be replaced with this very simple concept.
So where are we all at?
1. They guy was an ass hole.
2. Treat all people with courtesy and respect.
3. Its Okay to treat women with special deference if you are flirting. This is not sexist, but sexual.
I think think was more of an act of a "Bully". I don't really think it has to do with chivalry because it is just plain rude behaviour. That any person, male or female, would think it is ok to push, shove, put their hands on stranger is just a plain lack of social etiquette.
One day karma will retaliate...this person sounds like he has done some serious damage to others over his lifetime. I doubt this is the first and only time he has bullied someone. Sadly, its likely not the last. Too bad he wasn't hugged more as a child.
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